We’ve come a long way, baby?
Posted by lynnontop on June 12, 2007
I’m looking at www.thestar.com ( the online version of the Toronto Sta) and I see these headlines on the main page:
Gender Wage Gap Stays Wide - A new study has found little progress in closing the wage gap between young men and women.
Daughter’s Slaying a Matter of ‘Honour’ – A father who ordered his daughter slain for falling in love with the wrong man in a so-called “honour killing” was found guilty of murder yesterday.
Mother Regrets Move to Jamestown – If Corina Saez had more money, she would have taken her family elsewhere.
We may have come a long way, but nowhere near far enough, apparently.
bikerbernie said
There is no real wage gap in the USA.
Read here :
http://bikerbernie.wordpress.com/2009/03/09/rip-wage-gap-put-to-rest/
and here for the truth :
http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf
b
lynnontop said
Thanks bikerbernie.
I don’t live in the USA. My blog entry referred to the Canadian wage gap, which continues to exist, as described by the venerable and respected StatsCan here:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/bsolc/olc-cel/olc-cel?catno=11F0019MIE2001157&lang=eng
Here’s an excerpt:
I scanned through the CONSAD report you provided, which describes the experience in the US and summarizes their results as follows:
I agree that parts of the gap can be explained by women forgoing career opportunities to have and tend children. There are presumably other social factors as well. But I don’t believe that women’s choices or behaviours account for the gap in its entirety.
From a personal perspective, I and 23 other people have been hand picked by my employer for leadership training and development, with the view of promoting us to a senior management role in the near future. I could conclude that I as a woman am holding my own with the fellas. However, of the 24 of us selected for senior management development, only 5 are women. Many women work at a similar classification to me, yet women are not swelling the ranks of the potential promoted.
I’ve had to fight for everything I’ve earned, while I’ve watched equal or lesser men get easily handed what I’ve had to fight for. I still see systemic sexism where, all things equal, a man will get the nod and a woman will be overlooked. I’ve heard people say “there’s just something about that candidate I liked”. And frankly, the only “something” identifiably different is his gender.
Recently, I represented my employer at a media lockup — which I attended with two junior staffers who happened to be male. I sat between them at a desk, and members of the media would approach us to ask questions. Without fail, they would ask the men the questions.
Just as many non-whites still see racism yet I’m largely oblivious to it (being the easy beneficiary of white privilege), I think it’s not unusual for those enjoying male privilege to remain largely oblivious to the sexism that still exists in the workplace and elsewhere.
We may have come a long way, it’s still not far enough.
bikerbernie said
Lynnontop,
Thanks for the reply and the thanks.
You said:
“I agree that parts of the gap can be explained by women forgoing career opportunities to have and tend children. There are presumably other social factors as well. But I don’t believe that women’s choices or behaviors account for the gap in its entirety.”
A Fresh New Perspective
I find it funny that when I choose to cite information or not what I have said is always disputed. This is not my study but it is our governments, the very same entity that goes along with what women’s groups say that being there is a gender disparity in pay. Now we all know that at times it is human nature to prove your side no mater what, so the burning question is why would our government disprove something that it wishes to prove? Obama just signed and equal pay bill, why when there is no disparity according to the governments sanctioned study?
“From a personal perspective, I and 23 other people have been hand picked by my employer for leadership training and development, with the view of promoting us to a senior management role in the near future. I could conclude that I as a woman am holding my own with the fellas. However, of the 24 of us selected for senior management development, only 5 are women. Many women work at a similar classification to me, yet women are not swelling the ranks of the potential promoted.
I’ve had to fight for everything I’ve earned, while I’ve watched equal or lesser men get easily handed what I’ve had to fight for. I still see systemic sexism where, all things equal, a man will get the nod and a woman will be overlooked. I’ve heard people say “there’s just something about that candidate I liked”. And frankly, the only “something” identifiably different is his gender.”
We all have fought for what we have. Perhaps since it has always been men’s lot in life to “fight” that they are just better at it. No offence but your moniker is telling in a negative way. “Lynnontop” may not be the type of personality that your company is looking for; it is aggressive in an overly ambitious way. Also consider that maybe none of the 5 women deserved the “management position BUT a company cannot promote only men anymore because of affirmative action. However if a company chose to promote ALL and ONLY women that is OK. This is hardly fair, equal, or Constitutional, the 14th Amendment says so “Equal protection under the law.” Why is it that we as a society can break the rules and laws for women but not men?
“Recently, I represented my employer at a media lockup — which I attended with two junior staffers who happened to be male. I sat between them at a desk, and members of the media would approach us to ask questions. Without fail, they would ask the men the questions.”
The media do have rules, and they are looking for many things including confident personalities for the TV.
“Just as many non-whites still see racism yet I’m largely oblivious to it (being the easy beneficiary of white privilege), I think it’s not unusual for those enjoying male privilege to remain largely oblivious to the sexism that still exists in the workplace and elsewhere.”
The above is a lie that you have been brain washed with, you nor I have “white privilege” and resent the implication that I did not deserve what I have, in fact I deserve better because I have been turned down for jobs because I am a white male. That nasty thing called affirmative action in our country again. When I tie for first on a test where the city is hiring 154, and they went down to over 1,500on the list, this is female and minority privileges not white privilege. I could have been retired by now if not for this racist, sexist law.
b
lynnontop said
As I already mentioned – there is no “our” country. You’re in the US of A, and I’m in Canada. You’re in your country, I’m in mine. Please stop assuming the world begins and ends at your nation’s borders.
I understand you have a point to make, and I let you make it by allowing the comment to be posted to my blog. Your rebuttal to my reply, however, gave me pause. I almost opted not to post it. But it’s so illustrative of sexist, racist, US-centric and conspiracy-theorist attidues that I decided to leave it on. It so elequently states the lament of some people belonging to the gender who had everything his way but when systems are developed to attempt to level the playing field, they cry foul. Not fair that he should have to share the seats at the front of the bus! Not fair that he should have to compete for jobs men in a system that attempts to reduce the bias toward white males!
You’ve pointed out that I probably don’t have the personality my empoyer is looking for (which is at odds with the fact that my employer keeps giving me fantastic reviews and relies on me to get the job done). You’ve also pointed out that I don’t have a confident personality (which I’m confident enough to be amused by).
We’re all entitled to our opinions (although you seem to think we’re only entitled to your opinion), and it’s my opinion that the only one who seems aggressive is you – posting on my blog to tell me that I’m brainwashed, and that my experiences don’t have the same weight or worth as yours. The only one who seems to lack confidence is you – feeling threatened by women, people of other racial backgrounds, and your government (except when you think your government generated a study that supports your personal view).
I’m sorry someone else was hired in your place and ruined your retirement plans. Perhaps the employer didn’t value your personality?
bikerbernie said
Lynn,
I do not have much time right now I have to get some sleep before work but you have genuinely amused me. Personality has noting to do with a civil service test. You get a score and then you get an interview if you are female or a minority. I did not get that interview when tied for first. That my dear is reverse discrimination at its best.
I did not say the news teams were right in their assessment of you I just said that they look for certain things for the person that they are going to interview if there are more than one person to select from, simple.
BTW just because you do not believe in conspiracies does not negate the fact that they exist regardless they are planned or incidental to the laws that are passed. I have no lack of confidence and believe in the Boy Scout motto “Be Prepared.”
I do not assume that the world begins and ends at my countries boarders, but I can only speak from that perspective because that is where I live, nothing else was really meant by my saying our other than as in our the 330 million other people and me.
Now to address you confidence (since you seem also like to point out character flaws) are just a tad touchy about being Canadian and the fact that I did not and cannot write my views from your perspective.
I NEVER said your experiences were not as weighty as mine you did that makes you appear paranoid not me.
Apparently you did not read what I wrote for comprehension because if you did you would clearly see that I have not had a “privileged” life as you claim. This does not just affect me but it affect more women than men. You see there my wife and two daughters and only my son and I so what has affected me because of these anti-male sexist laws has also affect 3 women. Now I am sure that you will have an issue with that because it affects women also.
I was not aggressive in what I said I only stated facts, and if you cannot handle that it is you who are in denial.
As I said and it seems evident by you statement “by allowing the comment to be posted to my blog” is very aggressive and stated with superiority. I have never threated anyone to date with not showing their post, nor do I have any of the “your comment is awaiting moderation” nannies on my site. I do not feel the need because whether or not people agree with me I would like to know what they are thinking and where they are coming from, so no I do not feel threated, although it seems that you fit this mold.
More later if your highness “allows” me to post. What are you afraid of someone who does not agree with you? That is what I call a fragile blog. It does not look for all views just ones that agree with the administration.
It is a damn shame because I was going to complement you on your non-hostile style of conversing with people with differing views . . . but . . .
b
lynnontop said
Thanks Bernie. Your post speaks for itself – and ironically supports my view. So let’s part ways and simply agree to disagree.
Good luck to you and your family.